Open Dialogue/Discuss with Dr. Bertram Melbourne - People on the Move: The Book of Numbers

[Bertram Melbourne]

Can you imagine what it was live to be moving through the desert with about 1,000,000 unorganized people? Or were they? Think of blowing sand; scarcity of water; few if any shade trees; people, animals, etc. Can you imagine what it must have been like for Moses? Put yourself in his place and think of what you would have done. This quarter, I would like for us to think together and engage in dialogue regarding the Children of Isreal as we see them on the move in the desert. Feel free to express your thoughts, ask your questions, and challenge our thinking.. Happy adventure!

Here is a starter. We usually hear about the children of Israel in the wilderness. Were they in the wilderness or in the desert? Does it make a difference which it was?

[carlos Mcleod]

I dont think so

[Bertram Melbourne]

Perhaps Carlos, it would be a good idea to check out the difference between the two and then look at the geography of the area where Israel was then determine whether or not it does make a difference.

carlos Mcleod said:

I dont think so

[Bertram Melbourne]

According to the lesson, it was SFI--sex, food, and idolatry that led to Israel's downfall on the borders of the Promished land with the Moabites. Like typical men, the Israellite men doubtlessly felt that they were in control and in charge; they knew who they were and how far to go without getting into trouble. Yet, that is another lie of the Devil. His victims usually realize their error and their need when they are too far in over their heads and it is too late. It is better never to play with sin and to stay off the devil's turf.

It is interesting to also note when the devil struck. It was when the Israelites were relaxed having defeated their enemies and had not a care in the world. WE often say, "The devil finds work for idle hands to do." And that is true. That was also the case with David. When he was relaxed and at home instead of going out with his troops to war, that is when he got into trouble seeing what he should not have seen were he in the right place--Bathsheba bathing. We nee to learn from these mistakes.

Finally, it was SFI for Israel. It may be PMS for today's generation. What is PMS? It means power, money and sex. Many of our contemporaries fall for power and what if offers; others fall for money--the filthy lucre; and still others fall for sex. Some earn money by sex; others spend money for sex and still other use their money and their power to use others for sex. Note that the latter is common in all senarios and was seductive for Israel, too. So, be on your guard. The only safe place is with God on His truf and under His wings. We are only safe in the arms of Jesus! May God keep you there. It is a place of safety.

Now what are your thoughts on this?

[ADMINISTRATOR]

Many of the practices, traditions, and even laws of health or other laws by Moses would not stand in the courts of justice and the council of amnesty today. When I read when Moses said to do in the case of adultery, rape, etc, it turns my stomach. They were wrong. At least comparing to our understanding today. For example, where a women was raped that was considered damage to property. There the rapist had to either marry the victim to pay the father of the victim the cost of the damage of property. How could this be right. Dr. Melbourne, I am certain we are not to practice this today. Hence, how do we make the parallel to today with these practices? What lessons are there to learn?


Brent Teague said:

"Cooking a baby goat in its own mother's milk" ... yes, it would be a lesson for us today - because 2 Timothy it states: All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness - -

- - the question may be now, 'so, how might it be relevant today?' - - and this may be one perspective -->> to take the offspring and put it in the very life giving fluid (milk) that was meant to give life & to boil that offspring is unholy in the essence of the act itself ...

here a baby that was meant to have the life giving nutrition of his/her own mother's milk & is instead cooked by that very milk is a travesty that flies in the face of God's perfect and natural order (which order is to give life) ...

... we are to be God's representatives on this Earth where He gives us stewardship to practice His Godly principles ... and so we are looking for those ways to give life, rather than to take it ...

-we give life to others through sowing little seeds of Gods word through our own words & our actions (Proverbs 15:1 "A soft answer turneth away wrath") etc.

- funny thing, The Bible, we can practice the Holy Scriptures and be a living example of God's Holy Word in our words and actions without ever telling anyone that it is The Bible - our source of life - that gives them the good feeling of being around us ...

EXAMPLE: we make someone laugh in a good and healthy way - then, we just practiced The Bible i.e. "A merry heart doeth good [like] a medicine" - - prov. 17:22

Bertram Melbourne said:

Let's follow the Children of Israel as they go on the move. As they went on the move in Canaan, God told them through Moses in Edodus 23:19b "You shall not cook a kid in its mother's milk." How relevant is this command for us today when many of us don't eat meat and if we do, we do not follow such an odd practice? Would you agree or disagree then that this scripture has no relevance for us today? What is your opinion? Let's talk! I want to hear from you.

[Bertram Melbourne]

You are correct. These laws would not stand in our courts of justice today. Yet, what some folks don't realize that some laws in some courts are based on the civil laws that Moses gave to the people from God. Also, we must recognize that the nation of Israel was young at the time and some laws were there to protect them and prevent them from following the practices so prevelant around them. Moreover, Israel was under a theocracy at the time and God was the head of government. Many of these tabooed practices led not only to adultry and immorality to idolatry and wha is idolatry? It is adultry in the spiritual realm. If the church is God's bride, then having another God is tantamount to double dealing and is having another spouse with God. That is adultry.

Another significant point here is that the Bible was written in a certain historical and cultural mileu to speak to the people in that particular context. We live in a completlely new time frame, geographical context, and cultural mileu. We need first to find out what a text meant to determine what it means. So for example the text about cooking a kid in its mother's milk as I pointed out earlier spoke to Israel as they were entering Canaan where the people literally cooked a kid in its mother's milk and sprinkled the resultant soup on their fields in a magical way to ensure a good harvest. God told Israel in this text not to follow such practices since it is He who ensures a good harvest. Now since this is what that text meant then, what does if mean for today for us who don't cook kids in their mother's milk?

It says that it is God on whom we should depend for our successes and promotions. We should not depend on magic, witches, ouija boards, psychics, crystal balls, obeah, black magic, white magic, etc., for our successes. We should depend on God for it is He who gives us power to get wealth. This is very relevant for us today. Isn't it?

ADMINISTRATOR said:

Many of the practices, traditions, and even laws of health or other laws by Moses would not stand in the courts of justice and the council of amnesty today. When I read when Moses said to do in the case of adultery, rape, etc, it turns my stomach. They were wrong. At least comparing to our understanding today. For example, where a women was raped that was considered damage to property. There the rapist had to either marry the victim to pay the father of the victim the cost of the damage of property. How could this be right. Dr. Melbourne, I am certain we are not to practice this today. Hence, how do we make the parallel to today with these practices? What lessons are there to learn?


Brent Teague said:

"Cooking a baby goat in its own mother's milk" ... yes, it would be a lesson for us today - because 2 Timothy it states: All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness - -

- - the question may be now, 'so, how might it be relevant today?' - - and this may be one perspective -->> to take the offspring and put it in the very life giving fluid (milk) that was meant to give life & to boil that offspring is unholy in the essence of the act itself ...

here a baby that was meant to have the life giving nutrition of his/her own mother's milk & is instead cooked by that very milk is a travesty that flies in the face of God's perfect and natural order (which order is to give life) ...

... we are to be God's representatives on this Earth where He gives us stewardship to practice His Godly principles ... and so we are looking for those ways to give life, rather than to take it ...

-we give life to others through sowing little seeds of Gods word through our own words & our actions (Proverbs 15:1 "A soft answer turneth away wrath") etc.

- funny thing, The Bible, we can practice the Holy Scriptures and be a living example of God's Holy Word in our words and actions without ever telling anyone that it is The Bible - our source of life - that gives them the good feeling of being around us ...

EXAMPLE: we make someone laugh in a good and healthy way - then, we just practiced The Bible i.e. "A merry heart doeth good [like] a medicine" - - prov. 17:22

Bertram Melbourne said:

Let's follow the Children of Israel as they go on the move. As they went on the move in Canaan, God told them through Moses in Edodus 23:19b "You shall not cook a kid in its mother's milk." How relevant is this command for us today when many of us don't eat meat and if we do, we do not follow such an odd practice? Would you agree or disagree then that this scripture has no relevance for us today? What is your opinion? Let's talk! I want to hear from you.

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